Giving with Impact - Shared Purpose: Managing Conflict in Giving Across Generations

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Giving With Impact, an original podcast series from Stanford Social Innovation Review, developed with the support of DAFgiving360™. I'm your host, Barbara Wheeler-Bride, an editor at SSIR. In this series, we bring together voices from across the philanthropic ecosystem to have a conversation about what's at the heart of achieving more effective philanthropy. 

Today we're going to talk about family philanthropy, how families can manage conflict when it arises, and strategies for preparing a new generation of philanthropists to take the lead at family funds. We have three guests who have a vast amount of experience with family philanthropy across generations. They have many insights and stories to share, so we're going to jump right in. 

I'm happy to welcome Mollie Van Horn, the Executive Director of the Tawingo Fund, a family fund run out of Boston, Nick Tedesco, President and CEO at the National Center for Family Philanthropy, and Mary Jovanovich, Senior Manager of Charitable Consulting for DAFgiving360. Mollie, of our guests, you have the closest experience with family philanthropy because you run your family's fund, the Tawingo Fund. Could you tell us a bit about the genesis of this fund and your role? 

Mollie Van Horn: 

Sure. Great. And thanks for having me. It's great to be here. The Tawingo Fund started in 2016 when my father had restricted stock in a company that went public, and he decided at the time that he wanted to give the proceeds from the stock away and start a family fund. So I didn't grow up with the fund at all. It was really later in my mid-career that this happened. And I had been working at a nonprofit at the time for 10 years. So it was a very logical move for me to come in and run the fund. One of the unique things that Tawingo Fund really focused on and really decided to do was to not create a family foundation. 

So we are a donor-advised fund. And some of the reasoning behind that was he felt that he didn't want to over-complicate things for other family members. We didn't know what this was going to look like long-term because it was a restricted stock that was being sold off in portions. And so we decided to do a donor-advised fund. And I have a sister who is not involved at all. So that was another reason, that was just something she wasn't very interested in. So Tawingo Fund got going in 2016. We started giving relatively small grants to a lot of locally led organizations internationally. And we are now giving to about 50 different organizations per year and very actively involved in those. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Mollie, when it comes to your family's role and how the fund operates, what's been most challenging? 

Mollie Van Horn: 

So the most challenging part was the beginning. I think it's, one, very nerve-racking to leave another job and work with a family member, particularly your parent, and not know how it's going to go. And so the biggest issue was figuring out how are we going to work together and the process of figuring out what we were going to give to. So we needed to figure out sector, we needed to figure out geography. And once those things got started and once we figured out, okay, this is what we like, we got to a place of things being much more straightforward as I sort of earn the trust I think of my dad. 

The other piece that I think has been an ongoing tension is the head and the heart. So finding the balance between that and as the person who's doing the work and meeting the grantees and all of that, it's easy to get really attached and want to provide a grant. And feeling like you don't have the power to make that decision can be very challenging. Those have been things that we struggled with in the beginning. But I think as time went on and as we really built the trust of each other and got some commitments around having good faith in some of the things that were really important to us, we were able to really move forward. And it was a very, very smooth process. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Nick, I want to bring you into the conversation. We wanted to talk a little bit about conflict and family philanthropy. And while conflict is a natural part of any relationship, family philanthropies must manage it well to ensure internal issues are not a barrier to impact. Nick, from your perspective, what are the common conflicts that arise in family philanthropy? And how might families put in place organizational structures or guiding policies that help steer everyone toward common goals? 

Nick Tedesco: 

Well, thank you, Barbara, for the question, and thank you for the opportunity to be with you. And thank you to DAFgiving360. And Mollie, I really appreciate your honest reflections. I'm really excited that we're talking about conflict. And Barbara, you made an important statement just now that I want to underscore for the audience, that conflict is a natural part of any relationship and needs to be managed well. Most people fear conflict and they try to avoid it at all costs. It brings up a lot of complex feelings that requires us to be vulnerable and uncomfortable, which is not our natural set point as human beings, it just screams danger. But conflict is an organic part of family philanthropy and it's something that, as you mentioned, we need to anticipate and manage. 

Conflict arises in family philanthropy in two forms, ideas and relationships. And knowing how to discern between the two will help families navigate moments of high tension. So I just want to talk a little bit about the distinction between ideas and relationships. Conflict rooted in ideas stems from a misalignment on what to prioritize when making decisions. It centers the content and the outcomes. Conflict that originates from relationships really stems from our patterns of being with one another and it centers the inner personal. This is carrying forward the trauma that we hold. This is carrying forward how we relate to one another. 

And in the context of family philanthropy, the two forms of conflict often overlap as family navigate decisions on issues such as purpose and governance and approaches. And so for example, we see conflict arise when families are defining or redefining their focus or when they're thinking about issues of decision-making and leadership or succession, next-generation engagement. And it's during those moments of disagreement that we really encourage individuals to consider one fundamental question, whether the conflict is driven by the idea or the relationship. And really it's through that awareness that we're able to begin to depersonalize decision-making and look to rational solutions. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Nick, what are some strategies that families can use to recognize and manage conflicts? 

Nick Tedesco: 

There are a number of strategies that families can use to anticipate and manage through conflict. The first and perhaps most effective is to prepare for conflict. And our research has identified four ways to prepare for conflict. The first is to establish clear governance. This means to be clear about who makes the decisions and how the decisions are made. So really streamlining and being clear about decision-making. The second is to bring in neutral intermediaries. Use independent trustees. If you're a private foundation, use advisors. Use others that don't hold the same relationship as the family members. The third is to define your culture through a code of conduct or a culture statement which articulates how you want to engage with one another. This is about the agreements that you're making. We listen first, we put respect above all else. We're open, we're curious. 

And the last is to identify a monitor or an ally that's going to hold the system accountable. Is there a person within the family philanthropy that can raise their hand and say that conflict is present, that we need to manage through the conflict? And we find that when families really implement clear decision-making, clear governance, bring in neutral intermediaries, define their culture and build in systems of accountability, then it depersonalizes the engagement and it allows the work to prevail. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Can you say more about how people should respond when conflict arises? 

Nick Tedesco: 

Great question because preparing for conflict is an important step to take, but sometimes conflict is inevitable. So let's talk about what to do when conflict erupts. When conflict arises, the best tactic is to de-escalate and to bring down the temperature. And I know that's easier said than done, especially when Uncle Bob says something insulting. But science shows that de-escalation is the best tactic and families can do this through a few methods. The first is to listen. And yes, I know it can be hard. But be open to listening to others, ask open-ended questions such as, "How can we resolve this," or, "Tell me more." The second is to recognize our own emotions. So to listen to others, we need to listen to ourselves, we need to understand why we feel the way we do, and we need to separate our feelings from facts. And lastly, if tensions are high, just call for a break. 

One other thing I wanted to mention is what we share with families as a very practical tool, which is known as the pinch-to-crunch method. So little issues or pinches have a way of accumulating in family systems, which can lead to bigger negative feelings. So while issues are still a small aggravation or a pinch, individuals should get in and address it and address it early so it doesn't become a crunch. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Nick. Mollie, would you like to respond to anything that Nick shared based on your experience? 

Mollie Van Horn: 

Yeah, I was thinking about the ideas versus the relationships and thinking about the times when we had conflict and whether they were about ideas or relationships. And that was a really interesting point because I think I always had a bit of a combative, in a fun way, relationship with my father, which really I think prepared us well to sort of put it all out there and know that the relationship was going to be a little combative and that was okay. So it was kind of I think a unique situation in that sense. 

But when Nick was talking about setting a standard for how decisions are going to be made, I think that was what I was getting at in the beginning. When we started out, I would go to my dad with a bunch of different ideas, "Let's fund this organization, this organization," and he would go, "Nah, I don't like that." Okay, well, why don't you like that? What is the root cause of what we're going to be focusing on? And we got to a place of understanding that it was really about the model of the organization and the program that it was implementing being something sustainable and scalable and lasting. But I had to get to that going through the process of saying, "Let's go with this," and him saying no, and me getting very frustrated with the what do you not like about it? 

We got to figuring that out. But it took us that time to figure out what we were going to focus on to get there. And I think also having some level of say in that is really important for the next gen. And that's something that I know we're going to get to, but that's a really important piece of I think protecting the relationships and feeling like they have a seat at the table and they do have a say, which is really important. 

Nick Tedesco: 

And Mollie, you mentioned something that I just want to underscore for the audience, which is trust. And trust is the antidote to conflict, right? Because conflict arises when there is a breach of trust, a lack of trust. And so having trust and building that trust over time, over experiences, over decisions is what's going to help families manage through conflict effectively. 

Mollie Van Horn: 

Yeah. And I was thinking about something we had talked about in a prior conversation, Nick, which was around giving the next gen a small amount of say in what they're doing versus it just being the parents saying, "This is what we're going to do." And that's something I went to my dad multiple times to propose, can I have a little pot of money that I can decipher? And what he said to me was no, but he did say, "Please know that I trust you and if you bring something to me that you want to fund, and I'm not exactly a hundred percent thinking that that's what I want to fund, I'm still going to go with it and I'm still going to support it because I trust the work that you're doing." So in a way, we got there, but it just took a different route than the parents that actually give their children a discretionary fund. So I think you can do it a variety of ways. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Mary, we want to hear from you as well. Do you have anything to add to what Nick and Mollie have covered about managing conflict? 

Mary Jovanovich: 

I'd like to take a step back before the foundation structure even begins because I think that that's the most critical piece of the whole entire puzzle, because when you the person who wants to form the foundation wants to come forward and tell other people about the foundation, you really have to make a decision before you start to have those conversations. Is the purpose of this conversation to inform the family that I'm forming a foundation? Is the purpose that I'm having this conversation to include the family to be a part of it, or is it to inspire them? And it could be all of those three steps, it could be one of those steps or combinations of those steps. So I think that that's the most important part, is the very start when the person makes the decision or the couple makes the decision to form a family foundation that they decide, are we going to inform right now? Are we going to include right now? Or are we going to inspire? 

And then as you're bringing people on, you have to think about those same steps or those same processes, because that's where you can try to mitigate the conflict that arises from different ideas and different relationships and things like that. And it is very common where I do see, not all family foundations do this, but I do see many foundations that will open up donor-advised funds to complement the foundation to put those discretionary funds over into the foundation. And I think the most important thing is exactly what Nick said, where I've learned works the best is that code of conduct, like how are we going to have these conversations? Because then it doesn't make it personal for everyone. Because you don't want people on the defense. So those are some of the things that I think about. But it really starts at the very beginning, inform, include, inspire, what are you trying to accomplish with that first conversation? 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Mary. I think that's a good transition for us to start talking just a little bit more about the different generations and perspectives in family philanthropy. Nick, what are some challenges that are unique to family foundations or funds with multiple generations in the mix? 

Nick Tedesco: 

The imbalance of power. The greatest single challenge in multi-generational family philanthropy efforts is managing the imbalance of power that exists. Power dynamics are inherent in family philanthropy. It's an environment that's prone to promote friction or present conflict because of family relationships. Most people in family philanthropy are working with the people who are closest to them, parents, aunts, uncles, siblings, cousins. And so that means that there's always a layer of personal history and dynamics that isn't present in other similar situations. And when conflict arises, it often stems from power imbalances or family dynamics, and people tend to react in two ways. 

The first is by avoiding the conflict altogether, which typically ends with the person feeling resentment or resigning and deferring to others. The second is that people can become confrontational, sometimes giving into personal attacks that can be destructive. But there's a healthy conflict to be had in family philanthropy, moments where generations can learn and consider new perspectives. And families should be conscious of the margins where conflict can become unhealthy and really explore their willingness to engage in this healthy zone of conflict where there can be dialogue that brings forward those new perspectives and promotes new learning. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Nick. Mollie, I wonder from your perspective, you could talk a little bit about some of the challenges that you've seen with multiple generations? 

Mollie Van Horn: 

Yeah, so I think that the biggest challenge I've seen with multiple generations and that I've heard from a lot of my next-gen peers is that they don't know the plan for the family philanthropy. They don't know what role they're supposed to be playing. And they also don't know how much authority and freedom they have to take the foundation in a different direction if they were to want to. There's this lack of communication that's happening. And I don't know if it's because of the generation above not knowing what they want to do or whether it's just this strange family mystery. But I think communication upfront is really important to know what's your role going to be when your parents are gone and what is the sort of agreed upon understanding around what you can do with the foundation I think are super important things that a lot of next-gen peers are struggling with. 

And then I think the other piece of conflict that we haven't really talked about is finding a common ground a little bit on what that prior generation funded and what this next generation wants to fund. For example, this is very generalized, but there's a lot of earlier generations funding the local hospital, the local YMCA, a lot of more localized things, maybe not focused as much on the environment. But the next gen wants to do social impact investing. They want to save this planet, they want to potentially go international with their funding. They maybe have a different sense as to what they want to fund. And so finding some common ground between those generations so that the next gen doesn't feel like they're just taking on what their parents funded and have to do exactly what it was is a super important thing, I think, and something that has not really been figured out. And it's still sort of floating out there for a lot of people. 

Mary Jovanovich: 

And Mollie, to that point, I think in my experience the reason that there's such confusion with the next generation is because the previous generations didn't document things, like why was the foundation formed, what was the purpose, why were they giving to these funds or these organizations. And I think if you have that historical documentation, then what successful families I've seen that have that documentation have been able to navigate to those changes that are occurring now 40, 50 years later because they're still using the same philosophy. And again, generalizing, we want to make a difference in the lives of people to improve their economic wellbeing, for example. Well, they might've had a local focus, but that gives them the ability to maybe have a national focus. I think that that's the key, is documentation, either written or even now a lot of them are using digital where you can hear the person speak. So like 30 years from now, someone who had never met great-great-grandpa or great-great-grandma or an aunt or an uncle, could hear that in their own words and in their own voice. 

Nick Tedesco: 

I think you're both bringing forward something that we often talk about, which is the distinction between an invitation and an obligation and really being clear on what it means to invite the next generation into the family philanthropy and what's expected of them. And we often talk about guardrails and open gates. What are the decisions that are open to revisit and what are the constants that need to be carried through, so then the next generation can make a decision as to whether or not they want to engage in the family philanthropy knowing what perhaps those guardrails and open gates might be. And so it's critically important to think about the invitation that you're issuing and the clarity with which you're issuing the invitation to then empower those next-generation leaders to have full-throated leadership in the family philanthropy. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks to you all for those insights into what the next generation of leadership at family funds and foundations can look like. Nick, I'm curious, how does the National Center for Family Philanthropy specifically support younger generations who come into leadership at family foundations? 

Nick Tedesco: 

We dedicate a significant amount of our time and resources to help prepare the next generation for effective stewardship because we believe their voices and leadership are needed now more than ever. And we partner with the next generation by doing a few things. One is helping them find their why. It's critically important for the next generation to be able to articulate why they're motivated to be part of the family philanthropy. The second is to work with them to integrate into the family system so they have agency, so they are empowered, so they can help advance decisions and be seen as an equal in the effort. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Nick. Mary and Mollie, do you have anything to add to supporting the next generation of leaders? 

Mollie Van Horn: 

Less about specifically how to support the next generation of leaders and more about building in the values early on so that the next generation of leaders actually feels, to your point, Nick, is this expected or is this an invitation, they feel excited about this. I think that's a huge opportunity that I'm thinking about with my young kids, is how do I build this in. This is a gift. This is what we have. We're very, very lucky to have this. And it's a joy to be doing this work. And I think that that's something that helps with all the other elements of the work. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Mollie. Mary, you touched a bit on this earlier, but did you have any other insights into how we make those connections across generations about the importance of giving and the meaning behind the giving that's happening at a family fund? 

Mary Jovanovich: 

Well, I think one of the things to think about is when you're having a family foundation meeting, it's everyone. And so I think that there's an opportunity to have one-off conversations with individuals to see where they're at and sort of find out what do you need from me to help you feel more comfortable, feel more empowered, feel more engaged, like you're making the impact. So I think that would be my suggestion for future leadership, is not only is it important to come together as the collective, but it's still important to have those one-on-ones as well, just so that there's a safe space where someone can be vulnerable and say something without sort of calling themselves out or humiliating themselves in a public setting, so to speak. Those one-on-one conversations I think are so important, in addition to the family meetings. 

Mollie Van Horn: 

Barbara, can I add one thing that I forgot? Is that okay? 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Please. 

Mollie Van Horn: 

The other thing I was going to say, which is an idea that one of my next-gener's parents did for her, and I think it is a very smart thing to do, which was right when each kid turned around 18, they gave each of their children a DAF for a modest amount of money. And that enabled them to start to learn how to give and all of that. What's interesting is these three kids have all gone into some form of public service or giving or starting their own foundations. And so I think it's a really meaningful way to empower and teach your kids how to start to think about it. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Mollie. I think that's a really great suggestion on how you can pass on ideas. Plant those seeds of generosity or giving and getting a bigger understanding of the family's role in philanthropy. Mary, when a private foundation is no longer a good solution for a family, how do you move forward to a structure that maintains the history, some of what we were talking about before, the history and the values of the vision of the foundation to something else? 

Mary Jovanovich: 

You can potentially dissolve the private foundation into a donor-advised fund, or you can just outright grant out all of the money and sunset the foundation. So you can sunset it by giving all the money away. Or if there's funds that you want to continue to do, but not under the structure of a private foundation, it can dissolve into a donor-advised fund. And those steps are actually state-specific. And so the way that a family could go about that is they would have to go to the state where the foundation was originally established and follow those state guidelines to dissolve the private foundation. And so we always guide people to work very closely with an attorney or a CPA that can help them through that process. 

And the nice thing is that you can keep the same name because you can call a donor-advised fund foundation, you can use that in the title. So you're not taking away that history that's already existed in the past. And you could even have multiple people using the same name, because I've seen private foundations divide between three children and all three children have the same name on the foundation. They're just operating separate accounts. And so that's a possibility as well. And then it goes back to again remembering the past, documenting the past, and making sure that that information continues to be shared with future generations. Because you can then continually roll the donor-advised fund through succession planning by naming other individuals to take over the account. So you can continue to name family members to support that philanthropy, and then those family members can add their own dollars to those accounts as well. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Mary and Nick, I wonder if you have any suggestions for nonprofit leaders who are listening and how they could think about working with family foundations, or how they might think about that a little bit differently than another class of donors, let's say. Nick, you can go ahead. 

Nick Tedesco: 

From our perspective, family philanthropy represents an opportunity for nonprofits and funders to be in a relationship with one another and a relationship that's quite unique. And so it serves as an invitation to go beyond the transactional and embrace reciprocal learning. Our encouragement to nonprofits is to lean into the relationship and to reach out to their funders to let them know what is needed to share their learning and reflections, especially during times of crisis. And to also ask for more than financial partnership. Think about what else your partners can provide, technical assistance, access to their networks, their voice, their influence. But really think about how you as a leader of a nonprofit can invite in a trusting and reciprocal relationship. Because each interaction is an opportunity to learn from each other and to share resources, and it's a bi-directional relationship. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Mary. 

Mary Jovanovich: 

I'm going to follow up with what we call the five Ts of philanthropy or the philanthropic truth. So your time and talent, just like Nick said. Your testimony, have those family foundations telling other people about it. There's the tying together, where the family brings in other people that aren't part of the family foundation, but maybe future generations that are going to be onboarded come and do that. And then there's that final component of treasure. 

One of the neatest things that I've seen recently is I was working with a family with a foundation, and they were all going ready to go to Myrtle Beach to have the big family vacation. Two weeks, everybody gets together. They don't do anything about the family foundation, they're just going to have fun on the beach. And the father called me up and he said, "Mary, I just think I want to have them get together and do a volunteer project for maybe four hours. Can you help me? Can you figure out something that we can do?" And I said, "Sure." 

So I located the local community foundation in the area that they were staying, and I said, "I have this family that would like to do some projects. What are some opportunities of nonprofits in the area that can handle 36 people to come and volunteer for four hours?" And it could be over the course of two days, they'd split it up between 18 people and 18 people. The local food pantry was in desperate need of help stocking the shelves, sorting things, pulling things that had expired, et cetera. So they spent four hours of a two-week vacation volunteering at the local food pantry. And everyone was involved, every single member of the family was involved. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Mary. That's great. Mollie or Nick, I wonder, just to close, I have one more question. What's one piece or maybe an additional insight you have along the lines of what we've been talking about, about how we can really strengthen generational ties and really strengthen a family's potential to give generously? 

Nick Tedesco: 

The advice that we offer to philanthropic families is to center listening, listen to each other and listen to the communities that you seek to serve. We encourage people to be open, be curious and commit to understanding the needs and the opportunities of your giving, and not your giving individually, but your giving as a collective. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Nick. 

Mollie Van Horn: 

One of the things that has been very interesting to me is to see how rare it is to find families that aren't so philanthropic, that it's not a norm, right? And so what is it that made it such a norm in my life? The other thing I've been thinking about though is how, to me, it's such a gift and I'm not really sure why so many that people don't feel like it is. I've started to reflect on what's been different about my situation. And I think part of it is when you are raised in an environment which is just you give back, it's what you do, every year, we chose a charity for a holiday donation. Now we are funding that same charity at a much larger scale from what I used to fund 25 years ago when I was a kid. And so I think it's so important to root those values in your kids, even if you didn't do it at a young age, then bring them in later on. 

But families are doing philanthropy because it's a deep value of theirs, and so just make sure that that stays central to the kids and how they're being raised so that they feel that it's really part of who they are and they value the process of it. So I would just say trying to center it, like you said, Mary, about them doing volunteer work. That's partly why they are such a big family foundation. They're going and they're doing volunteer work when they're on vacation. That's the kind of thing that I think is going to continue to build strong family relationships and is really important for the continuation of family philanthropy. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks, Mollie. Mary, Mollie, and Nick, I want to thank you for joining us today and sharing all of your insights and your personal stories of giving and family philanthropy. This has been really insightful, and I think our listeners are going to come away with a lot of great ideas that they can incorporate into their own work and their family foundation or family fund. So thank you for joining us. 

Mary Jovanovich: 

Thank you. 

Mollie Van Horn: 

Thank you. 

Nick Tedesco: 

Thank you. It was a pleasure. 

Barbara Wheeler Bride: 

Thanks for listening, everyone. Please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps other listeners discover the show. We hope you'll check out more episodes in this series, as well as other podcasts from SSIR. This podcast series is made possible with the support of DAFgiving360, who played an important role in the selection of topics and speakers. 

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